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Delta One
08-23-2007, 03:14 PM
Hi all, I'd like to ask your general opinion on airsofters wearing country flags. I've heard from some that it is an honor that we don't have the right to. I personally restrict myself to team and name patches.

Recently though my team has been thinking of adding heritage countries or our state flag patch. I personally don't see a problem with that, but I'm feeling like others do, that the american flag on our uniforms could not be as much of a sign of a support as disgrace. I'd be fine with it as a sign of support but the negative attitudes on the issue discourage me and most of my team from doing so as support.

What is your guys opinions?

Bear
08-23-2007, 03:41 PM
Whoever told you you cannot wear the flag is a douchenozzle. Wear it with pride. It's unit patches and rank that most of us have an issue with.

Dark Paladin
08-23-2007, 03:55 PM
I wear the Taiwan flag on my left shoulder and a reversed US flag on my right. I've gotten funny glances from people, but mostly people ask me where did I find the Taiwan flag, as opposed to saying I shouldn't wear them. I see no reason why I cannot proudly display where I came from and where I am now.

+1 what Bear said. Whoever said you can't wear flag patches is an idiot.

HammerHead
08-23-2007, 06:41 PM
Technically, wear of the United States flag on uniforms is restricted as follows (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode04/usc_sec_04_00000008----000-.html)



(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

For all intents and purposes, it is inappropriate for us, as airsofters to wear the United States flag on airsoft uniforms. We are not properly recognized as a patriotic organization. While we may display patriotism in our events and behavior, we are not recognized and entitled as such.

The Boy Scouts of America is recognized as a patriotic organization. As a result, Boy Scouts wear the full color flag on the right sleeve of their uniform with the union on the flag's own right - on the observer's left.

I spent five years in Army ROTC programs and ten years in the Boy Scouts of America. I was only ever authorized to wear a United States flag on my BSA uniforms. Not once was I ever authorized to wear the flag on my ROTC uniforms.

I gave up attempting to make this point to airsofters when my arguments of the above code fell upon the deaf ears of an individual claiming to be a Sergeant Major of the United States Army. So, no, I won't say anything to anyone about wearing it. Nor will I comment on the wear of a subdued US flag (though this is wrong as well).

I spent entirely too much time learning, reciting and being tested upon the above facts to ever commit this transgression myself. I certainly don't consider myself an idiot or a douchenozzle for respecting the United States flag according to the codes set forth for doing so. Please do some research and fully consider the facts before making such irresponsible statements.

State flags are a different matter, entirely and I proudly wear the Lone Star on my uniforms.

PITT
08-23-2007, 08:45 PM
I wear the Lone Star on my uniform. Even though I live in Oklahoma Texas is and always will home to me. That and it pisses some of the OU loving okies off up here and I get great enjoyment out of that.

The American flag is a different story. I wear one because I am a patriotic individual, not because I'm pretending to be military or anything else. Unit and rank patches are a no no unless you've earned them.

uacmarine
08-23-2007, 11:37 PM
Hammerhead is correct. I was also in the Army ROTC program at A&M and only those who had an Army contract in the ROTC program were issued ACU's with the American flag patch. State is fine, but from all I learned in the program, I personally shy away from wearing it without being a member of those organizations included in the list. As for the supposed Sergeant Major, Don't let him get you down. If anything, he should have been grateful that a regular civilian new those regulations.

patmann90
08-23-2007, 11:46 PM
Uacmarine I thought A&M was a Air Force ROTC? I don't see why anyone is prohibited to wear an American flag as long as its not displayed in a disrespectful manner.

HammerHead
08-24-2007, 12:19 AM
Uacmarine I thought A&M was a Air Force ROTC?

1. Nearly every major university in the country which offers a Senior ROTC program will make available all three service branches: Army, Navy and Air Force. Cadets with an agreement to join the Marine Corps will typically spend time in both the Army and Navy cadet units.

2. Those non-service universities which support a Corps of Cadets are no different. The Corps of Cadets is an entity entirely separate of the SROTC programs. Typically it encompasses an everyday all day lifestyle, rather than the more limited scope of attending ROTC military/leadership labs and other classes, as one would find at a university without a Corps of Cadets. All three SROTC branches will be represented in that Corps of Cadets. I had two Air Force cadet roommates at university, while I was assigned to the Army detail with a Corps commitment.


I don't see why anyone is prohibited to wear an American flag as long as its not displayed in a disrespectful manner.

You didn't really read and comprehend this entire thread, now, did you? I posted, in detail, the reasons why it is prohibited. I also provided a URL where you can review the entirety of the flag code as support to my argument.

patmann90
08-24-2007, 12:32 AM
Ok thanks for the info HH I did not know they had multiple units at one college.

RedRaptor
08-24-2007, 07:17 PM
I wasn't aware of this information regarding the U.S. Flag, among other things. Thanks for the heads-up - I guess I'm in the market for some new patches, then. :)

uacmarine
08-25-2007, 12:24 AM
HammerHead is once again correct, only this time on the ROTC scope of things. Living in the Corps lifestyle is much more demanding and equally more rewarding than most ROTC leadership labs at other Universities. Yes, they have many units within each branch at A&M. For example, they have 2 Army Brigades consisting of about 5 or 6 individual outfits with each outfit containing anywhere from 30 to an excess of 60 or so people. The same is also applied to Navy/Marine and Airforce outfits, the only difference being what the terms are for Brigade and other general terms. One other point in military info, don't respond to an enlisted person (ie Privates, Sergeants) as "Sir". They typically dislike this very much because the title "Sir" is reserved for Officers. Instead, simply call them "private" if they are a private or have no rank, or if you can't recognize what kind of sergeant they are, simply "sergeant". I learned this the hard way when I was in the Corps of Cadets, as one time I mistakenly saluted (also a no no for enlisted personnel) and then called a Master Sergeant "Sir". Needless to say, I was on my face doing about 100 for each offense right then and there. Don't be scared, though, they won't do that to civilians, only to those in ROTC programs or to an extremely FUBARd private.

LaPHtA
08-25-2007, 08:57 AM
Flags have never been an issue with me.

Service Rank...tabs...things of that nature...a little different.

If you're a young gun I'll shrug it off as a bunch of kids 'playing war' as I used to.

If you're in your twenty's or older and I see you wearing a sniper tab above a Divarty patch and sporting non subsdued Major above a SEAL trident...I'm calling you out. Or talking about you behind your back.

A lot.

;)

Delta One
08-25-2007, 02:26 PM
Yeah I agree with the points you made hammerhead.

How do you feel about patches from your immigrant country? I myself am third generation Sicilian and am proud to be so. Would it be wrong to display, like rally drivers and co drivers display on their windows? I don't see it the same as trying to pass of with the US flag, but it could be applied the same way.

HammerHead
08-25-2007, 03:07 PM
First, please review site rule #18. Proper punctuation and capitalization are your friend.

Second, I know nothing of the regulations and/or guidelines for display or wear of the Sicilian regional or Italian national flags. So, I can't really comment on the matter. I'd suggest you do some research and make an appropriate decision on your own.

GUNSnGUITARS
08-28-2007, 02:50 PM
I wear my flag on my BDU's. I understand the regs that HH posted, but personally I feel that if you're a vet....wear it with pride. Because you earned it.