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View Full Version : Guarder New Generation M4 Metal Body



Dark Paladin
01-15-2006, 10:29 PM
*also posted in Product Reviews*

Even since I managed to break the pin tabs on my TM M4A1, I knew it was only a matter of time before I had to replace the stock plastic receiver. Being the stickler that I am, I *had* to get a receiver that had Colt trademarks. But at the time, it was slim pickings for me. Until I found out that Guarder was releasing a new series of metal bodies, and one of them did have Colt trades, for a reasonable price. After pestering WGC for a few weeks, I was finally able to order it, and was not too long before I had it in my grubby little hands.

First off, the construction feels very solid. Which is pretty much expected for a metal body, I suppose. The trademarks were beautifully recreated, and all the nooks and crannies that I would expect from a real-steel M4 is there, even the faux pas pin holes on the sides.

One very innovative design change was the barrel assit knob. On the stock TM, the little knob had a tendency to be easily knocked off from the reciever, hence causing headaches for owners with missing knobs. That is no longer the case. Guarder's designers tweaked it so that there is a pin that you can push in place to "lock in" the knob. It still simulates the push feature, but there's no way it can be jolted out of the reciever.

Before I get into the installation review, let me say that the Dremel is the best tool I've purchased. And while Hammerhead commented how it was a PITA to install/remove the mechbox in my stock TM receiver, that was child's play compared to the Guarder receiver.

If you can follow the instructions that Guarder/IntruderShop has on their webpage, you'll find that 85% of if is very striaght forward. 5% of it is the plastic hop-up assembly, which took me some time to put together because I only had my stock TM hop-up to use as a template. The remaining 10%. . . is where you have to put the mechbox into the receiver. And that's where the Dremel came in.

The TM design didn't allow for enough space for the rear of the mechbox to clear the receiver. It was easily forgiven because the plastic materials allowed some variance. Not so with a metal receiver. I finally ended up dremeling the insides of the bottom receiver (right underneath where the charging handle sits) so that there is enough room for the top rear section of the mechbox to slide in and out.

But I'm not done with the Dremel yet. As I'm putting things back together piece by piece, I was unpleasantly surprised by the fact that none of my magazines (Star, TM, G&P) will fit in the new mag well. Several dremel sessions later, which involved in shaving a few millimeters off along each corner in the mag well, allowed enough clearance for my mags to fit snugly without tearing off paint from the mags.

So here I was happily putting the finishing touches on it, hoping that that was the last hurdle I had to cross. Not so, deemed the AEG gods. Apparently the metal body fit so snugly next to the mechbox, I've lost the ability to fire full auto. Its a weird problem that I have yet to find a solution for, so the most I can do is describe the problem and maybe somebody will think of something.

The selector switch will sit nicely at safe, no problems. Semi is a bit tricky, as the familiar "click" is no longer present, for some unknown apparent reason. Full auto. . . it sits. . . but somehow it also engages the safety lock on the trigger, so even though the selector is sitting at full auto, the trigger is locked so you can't pull it all the way. I've disassembled and reassemble at least a dozen times, and cannot figure out why. The best I can do is to leave the selector on auto when jamming the mechbox into the lower reciever (and "jamming" is perhaps an understatement in regards to the amount of force required. . .). That seems to have worked, but sometimes I will still encounter the trigger lock, which is slightly annoying.

Despite popular belief, the metal body does not completely resolve the infamous TM M4 barrel wobble. Its greatly reduced, but its still there. . . a shadow of its former glory. Maybe its limited to this particular model, or maybe its because of the M203 I have installed, but you can definitely feel the barrel tweaking when handling it.

In conclusion. . . Guarder has made a innovative design change in regards to the barrel assist, but either has some quality control issues, or is too liberal in its engineering specifications. All in all. . . its a solid piece of metal. Unfortunately the amount of trouble I went through to get a decent fit is probably more than the average airsofter is willing to endure.

This is my first experience with installing a metal body, so I don't have any other manufacturer's data to compare it with.

AustinWolv
01-16-2006, 12:36 AM
Something doesn't sound right here. WIthout insulting the assembler, I can't recall the last time I've heard of a MBK for a M16 giving someone that much trouble, and I am certainly surprised that a MBK for an AEG that has been on the market for ages couldn't be designed right by a company that typically does some pretty nice products. I could be mistaken, but I'd have to see this one.

Are you sure you are assembling it correctly?

Also, a MBK never fully "solves" the overhyped barrel wobble issue. It merely reduces some of the flex at one junction. A metal outer barrel is the true way to absolutely address it.

Dark Paladin
01-16-2006, 01:40 AM
Well. . . assuming that I'm reading the instructions correctly, then I'm following it to the best of my abilities. The instructions I followed can be found here: http://www.intrudershop.com/show_product_eng.asp?idproduct=750

I'm not sure what other steps I could've taken in regards to the mag well. . . as that's pretty much a one piece situation there (lower receiver).

The fitting of the mechbox into the receiver, according to Guarder/Intruder Shop, requires a love tap from a hammer on the bottom receiver. It says so on their instructions. . . note the "Tunking on receiver" on the bottom of the page from the link I gave above. So unless I'm fitting it wrong somehow. . . *shrugs*

The selector switch problem I am truly at a loss. It is possible that I made a mistake somewhere. . . but as I stated. . . in following the instructions, I'm not sure how. Unless the instructions were faulty to begin with.

Like I said originally. . . its my first time installing a MBK. . . so I am not invulnerable to making mistakes. Pointers would be much appreciated.

AustinWolv
01-16-2006, 09:18 AM
Awesome, tunking" should always be part of the assembly process. :doh:

Well, understandable that you are where you are, given those directions. The "click" of the selector switch is caused on the TM by a small nub backed by a spring on the inside surface of the selector switch; it falls into small holes on the receiver when rotated to the desired position. Is that not replicated on this MBK?


I finally ended up dremeling the insides of the bottom receiver (right underneath where the charging handle sits) so that there is enough room for the top rear section of the mechbox to slide in and out. I'm having a hard time visualizing what this meant. The mechbox should already be in the upper receiver, slid into place. Then, the lower receiver is fit into position (with the assistance of tunking apparently, :rolleyes: ). The wide part of the mechbox is already in place in the upper receiver when this happens, so I'm not following.

Sorry man, I'd have to see it, but that really is disappointing if they did not allow room for the selector.

Marimba
01-16-2006, 10:00 AM
I have a different idea as to what could be causing the safe/semi/auto selector problem. AW is right in saying that the selector switch should have a detent to determine the position where the switch is. I believe that during the reassambly of the two halves of the body the position of the selector switch was in the auto position. Then the small round plate which holds the selector switch in place was forcefully mis-alaigned when the two halves of the body and the mechbox were forced together. This rotating of the inner plate out of its normal position would cause the selector problems you described. This would also cause the mechbox to be pressed 1-2mm over to the rightside of the body which would make it more difficult to proberly alaign and assemble the body halves. I would disassemble the body, then check to make sure the selector switch and the inner small metal plate are in correct alaignment. Each position of the safe/semi/auto should have a easily felt detent as the selector switch mover from position to position with the selector pionting to the lettering. If not, you will have to hold the inner plate with your thumb while you press against the selector switch on the outside in order to realaign the selector. Then reassemble the body halves with the selector switch in the semi position. Once this is done, check the positions and travel of the switch and trigger before continuing the assembly.

Dark Paladin
01-16-2006, 10:24 AM
Yes, the Guarder kit replicates the indentions on the safe/semi/auto sections. With the mechbox removed from the lower receiver, I hear all the reassuring clicks, so I'm pretty sure the indentions are not at fault.

That said, once I put the reciever into the lower reciever the selector switch "loses" the "clicks". It is entirely possible that its a fitting issue like Marimba said. However, I have already tried the "semi" position for both the switch and the plate when fitting. . . once I "tunk" the receiver, the selector is immediately forced into a position towards "safe", and I am guaranteed to get the trigger lock issue. If I move the plate and the switch over to the "auto" position, it seems to fit better with less fuss (and no trigger locks). I've followed the check-before-continuing procedure all along, so please believe me when I said I've done this at least a dozen times.

AW. . . the mechbox is well esconced in the upper receiver when I try to fit it into the lower receiver, as per the instructions. Unfortunately, the upper rear portion of the mechbox, where the spring guide sits internally, tends to catch the reciprocating part on the bottom receiver. Its almost like the mechbox is a tad bit too "long" for the receiver. Maybe we'll get a chance this Sunday to poke at it some more.

AustinWolv
01-16-2006, 10:38 AM
AW. . . the mechbox is well esconced in the upper receiver when I try to fit it into the lower receiver, as per the instructions. Unfortunately, the upper rear portion of the mechbox, where the spring guide sits internally, tends to catch the reciprocating part on the bottom receiver. Its almost like the mechbox is a tad bit too "long" for the receiver. That sounds common with other metal body kits I've installed. No need to Dremel in those instances.

Marimba posted a very good point.

We're not saying you are wrong, as there could very well be fit issues, so further investigation would be nice. :)

I can try to help on Sunday if time permits, or we can meet up prior to take a look at it, as I'm curious about these issues.

budorange
10-02-2006, 09:36 AM
hi there,
sorry to revive such an old post but..
did anyone managed to solve this trigger lock problem ?
I'm actually stuck in this issue as of now ..
an M4 with a guarder body and marui gbox.
selector is fine up until the final push (the last couple of millimeter) to align the lower and upper reevier.
then it become hard to spin and lock in semi , sometime also in auto, and the trigger itself does a clunking like noise,
funny thing is , with the gearbox out of the lower, I can't replicate the problem , pushing the the selector plate or anything else.
I remember having a similiar issue with an AK conversion using a Guarder kit, the aks-74 one, in that case I got to give up the semi firing,

any idea?
William

Marimba
10-02-2006, 10:24 AM
Have a look at my earlier post. It is easy to get the selector switch on the outside of the body become mis-alaigned with the small "plate" (the one that the screw passes through) on the insode of the body.

budorange
10-02-2006, 11:13 AM
Marimba,
later I'll try removing the selector switch and its inside counterpart to see if it is the culprit.
I'll let you know
Thanks
William

HammerHead
10-02-2006, 08:10 PM
Budorange, please read, review and do your best to adhere to site rule #18:
http://www.lonestarairsoft.com/forums/rules.php

Thank you.

Dark Paladin
10-02-2006, 09:38 PM
hi there,
sorry to revive such an old post but..
did anyone managed to solve this trigger lock problem ?
I'm actually stuck in this issue as of now ..
an M4 with a guarder body and marui gbox.
selector is fine up until the final push (the last couple of millimeter) to align the lower and upper reevier.
then it become hard to spin and lock in semi , sometime also in auto, and the trigger itself does a clunking like noise,
funny thing is , with the gearbox out of the lower, I can't replicate the problem , pushing the the selector plate or anything else.
I remember having a similiar issue with an AK conversion using a Guarder kit, the aks-74 one, in that case I got to give up the semi firing,
any idea?
William

I did get your PM regarding this, but was rather preoccupied and was not able to respond in time.

What I ended up doing was replace pretty much every component on the body with Guarder parts. In effect, nothing was TM stock anymore. While a bit more expensive, this resolved my selector/trigger lock completely.

budorange
10-03-2006, 09:08 AM
ok ,
it's the selector switch and its inside part, but now how to solve the problem?
William

budorange
10-03-2006, 09:27 AM
Budorange, please read, review and do your best to adhere to site rule #18:
http://www.lonestarairsoft.com/forums/rules.php

Thank you.

Sorry Hammerhead,
I'm doing my best since I'm Italian and I've not studied english at all, :hammer:
just learned something trough the internet..

budorange
10-03-2006, 09:32 AM
I did get your PM regarding this, but was rather preoccupied and was not able to respond in time.

What I ended up doing was replace pretty much every component on the body with Guarder parts. In effect, nothing was TM stock anymore. While a bit more expensive, this resolved my selector/trigger lock completely.

no problem,
if I can't solve using my stock part I'll try the guarder selector plate, since inside the gearbox I've upgraded already
thanks again
William

HammerHead
10-03-2006, 06:35 PM
Sorry Hammerhead,
I'm doing my best since I'm Italian and I've not studied english at all, :hammer:
just learned something trough the internet..

That's understandable. We'll try to keep in mind that English is not your first language. Your effort is appreciated.

jeremywills
03-28-2008, 01:13 AM
Sorry for the thread revival. I broke down and purchased the Guarder Metal Body kit from Black for my Echo 1 M4. Got it today. This thread is a wealth of information and I will be keeping it handy for the next few days as I attempt to swap bodies.

Thanks for the good information given. Im hoping I dont have to dremel but we shall see. Wish me luck. I'll post pics of the progress and my experience with it afterwards.

jeremywills
03-30-2008, 09:20 PM
So the process begins.

Very carefully dissaembled my Echo1 to get the gearbox out. Test fit the upper and lower Guarder receivers to the gearbox, so far it appears everything will line up so I can put the reciver pins in place. As I start to assemble the hopup, the fake charging handle etc.... and start having more components inside the halves with the gearbox I'll see if this holds true, so far so good.

I did have a hard time getting the plastic Echo1 lower reciever off of the mechbox and discovered a stress fracture on my selector plate. I don't know if it was failing already before I attempted to seperate them or if I did that in the process. Regardless I might have to put this on hold and replace it right now while its out in the open.

I'll have to search the board here and do some googling to see about a suitable replacement.

jeremywills
03-31-2008, 08:59 AM
Even though the snapped selector plate is delaying the project I figured might as well assemble the gun to completion to see if I could find any additional problems that might arise. I'm just simply not able to fire the gun with it being stuck on safe till the plates replaced. Cheap enough, looks like they are like 10 bucks. I think PB mart here in SA has one.

Honestly I was shocked at how easy everything was fitting together. I kept hearing stories of people having to dremel the body in spots to make it all fit but it dropped right in . In fact Im afraid it might have dropped in too easily, the receiver retaining pins, especially the rear one has almost no resistance and I'll probably loose it the first time on the field as is. Teflon tape or maybe some semi permanent loctite might keep it in place, I'll have to try that first or get another retaining pin that is slightly larger to fit the hole better. Instead of removing metal Im going to have to build some back up if that makes sense.

Completely assembled it looks killer. I have to take it apart again now to get to the selector plate and I'll re photograph the steps and the finished product when its working. Im also pleased each of my mags seem to fit the well just fine and mates to the one piece hopup. They lock in place and when I pull the mag I get the usual 3 to 5 bb's that drop out. Thats a good sign at least the two are meshing well to release bb's out of the mag. I was afraid of that being an issue with some people stating you will probably be dremeling inside the mag well to get the mags to even insert. They feel snug with little play and little force to insert them.

Time to go back to the drawing board on the few issues but if this is all Im going to have to tackle Im tickled to death. I was really expecting more of a hassle.

The true test will be when I have the gearbox operational and I see it feeding and firing properly, only then can I say Mission sucessful. Right now thats looking very promising.

AustinWolv
03-31-2008, 09:10 AM
Go the secure route and get yourself some pins such as these:
http://www.kastwayairsoft.com/Products/King-Arms-M16M4-Pin-Set__KA-PIN-01.aspx

jeremywills
03-31-2008, 09:37 AM
Thanks for making me aware of that. That actually would be perfect. I guess I'll be placing an order shortly.