PDA

View Full Version : APS-2 vs. MP24



HaHa
08-28-2003, 01:57 AM
Hello everyone. I'm looking at buying a sniper Rifle, so I thought I'd ask the more experienced crowd. Right now I'm leaning towards an APS-2 EX. I haven't found as much info on the MP24 as I have found on the APS-2. So which is better as far as range, durability, accuracy, etc...
Whichever one I get, I'm going to upgrade it to 500fps. any info will be appreciated. :D :D :D

littleNinJai
08-28-2003, 08:55 AM
The APS-2 is a very formidable weapon, but you have to tweak it just to have it perform correctly. I think you have to file something down in order to it to feed bb's the right way, but I am not too sure, as I do not own one. Go out to one of the games and ask Jeremy about his. I think his name on the forums is Skizm, but someone could correct me if I'm wrong.

AustinWolv
08-28-2003, 08:58 AM
Yes, Skizm uses one. Obsidian used to have one as well.

cclark1985
08-28-2003, 09:08 AM
Correction... Jeremy aka 'Skizm' uses an M24. Also, ninjai, what your talking about filing down is part of the back of the receiver. Some people file it down to produce smoother cycling action of the cylinder/bolt handle.

Obsidian
08-28-2003, 09:46 AM
After having an APS and now having a SR25. There is no way that a bolt action rifle can match the semi auto power of the SR. It would be a different story if the bb hit exactly where you were aiming all the time. As it stands there are too many variables that affect the bb. For stopping power the ability to fire off round after round without having to drop the rifle to cycle the bolt is invaluable.

HaHa
08-28-2003, 02:18 PM
I just saw a PSG1 and an SG1 at airsoftextreme.com. The PSG1 is electric, but I don't know if it is in fact a sniper rifle or not. It only has a 15 round cap, and according to them there's no hi cap mag.
The SG1 is described as a sniper/assault rifle. Is this true? or should I stick with the APS-2 EX? What stuck w/me was the fact that the SG1 has a hi cap mag available.

Thanks.

mcoupe11
08-28-2003, 02:32 PM
"... with me ..."
Two short words. Doesn't take long to type. No need to abbreviate.

All magazines are interchangeable within the G3 series of AEGs, including the PSG-1. The PSG-1 can use G3 high-capacity and standard magazines, although I don't see why a sniper would need 500 rounds to accomplish a mission.

Be advised that a fully-automatic-capable AEG like the G3-SG1 cannot, under TASO rules, be upgraded past 400 fps with .20g BBs unless the fully-automatic setting is disabled.

HaHa
08-28-2003, 02:50 PM
Hehe... But I like abbreviating. It's fun. :D
That's right, I forgot about that rule. Well, the only reason why I was asking about the SG1 is because of the hi cap magazine option. The PSG1 is not a full auto rifle, so I wouldn't be violating TASO rules. I just want to get a good sniper rifle that I don't have to keep cocking manually. But if the APS-2 EX is far more accurate, then I'd still go with that.
I guess it now comes down to either APS-2 or PSG1... Decisions decisions...

Obsidian
08-28-2003, 03:23 PM
Talk to Katana about PSG's. I would say this. Unless you have alot of money to burn you do not want to go the sniper route with an electric gun. If you have some money to burn The bolt action rifle is not a bad route. If you do not have money to burn you need to stay away from sniper rifles. That being said I think that sniper rifles in airsoft are more for intimidation and getting the team over a stagnating battle than anything else.

Skizm
08-28-2003, 04:52 PM
HaHa,

If want to get a better idea about each of the rifles in question, then come to one of the games and seek out myself and Chris from FOG. I personally have an M24 rifle and Chris sports the APS which you are more then welcome to look over and ask as many question as you like. We are more then happy to answer them as best we can.

Just know this about airsoft sniping in general, it takes a LOT of time, patience, and especially money to perform this role to any significant level. I've invested a very large chunk of all the above to get where I'm at now and I am nowhere near being close to the level I want.

NOTE: If you are going to be a sniper you MUST have a backup weapon of some sort due to the engagement distance limits imposed on sniper rifles. I would HIGHLY suggest some sort of AEG, otherwise someone will get within the 100ft engagement limit, thus rendering your rifle useless.

EDIT: Doh! Busted by the 'Grammer Nazi'!

Note: Sami will be volunteering his services so that I can show you the accuracy of my rifle. :D

mcoupe11
08-28-2003, 05:18 PM
Let's see here ...

"... which you're more than welcome ..."
"I''ve invested a large chunk ..."
"... nowhere ..."
"... sneakiness."
The last sentence also needs to be reworded.

Pains me that it's one of my FOG brethren on the receiving end. :p

HaHa
08-28-2003, 07:36 PM
Great! In that case, I'll try to make it out this sunday. Even if it's just to watch you guys play hehe...
I already know about the backup weapon. As far as right now, I think I'll just borrow/rent one from someone until I can afford to buy one. I really want to be a sniper, so I think I should focus on getting my rifle first. But since I'm jumping into "unexplored terrain", I'd like to get as much information as possible. :D:D:D

Thanks for all your help, and hopefully I'll see you guys this sunday.

Obsidian
08-28-2003, 10:17 PM
Get a regular AEG first. Once you learn the game expand your roles. I will bet that if you jump into the sniper role right off the bat you will end up disliking airsoft.

Skizm
08-28-2003, 10:34 PM
I'm with Obsidian on this one.

Unless you're willing to shell out at least $500 up front for a sniper just to BEGIN to compete with an AEG then don't do it. Also that figure doesn't include the ammo, extra mags, scope/mount and backup weapon.

You can get an AEG upgraded for about $300 including all the accoutrements to go with it if you buy used or about $400 if you get one new. Either way its cheaper and you can get a feel for the game before commiting an insane amount of money, after all AEG resell quicker then sniper rifles.


APS2 (Standard) $260
PDI Cylinder Set R Level 3 for APS2 $160
First Factory - PSS2 170 Spring (550fps) $21
Shipping from HK $60

APS2 GRAND Total $501


CA M24 (Standard) $270
PDI Cylinder Set R Level 3 for M24 $160
First Factory - PSS2 170 Spring (550fps) $21
Shipping from HK $60

M24 Grand Total $511


I'm not sure what else is needed on the APS2 as far as upgrades go but those are just the BASE upgrades.

Corrections welcomed

Big Dog
08-30-2003, 05:18 PM
I have been using a M24 for about 2y now and here is some of what I have learned. I also have a G3SG1 and Dragunov but ever time the M24 comes out on top....

PDI / CA M24 SWS
A number of you have seen the big long rifle on the field and asked what is that, well itís the Big Bad Dog of Sniper rifleís the M24.
Now you can have two airsoft M24ís one made by PDI of Japan that cost around $500 and the Classic army versions of the M24 that cost around $275 to $300 depending on what model you get from them. In this review we are going to talk about the Classic Army (Version 2). The model we are going to look at is the military one. Note: That the rifle in the photos may not look like the rifle you may buy; my rifle has had a vast amount of gun smiting done on it to meet my needs.
Now you may ask what is the different from the military model to the standard model, well the military one has a fluted barrel. Now you ask what gun should I get the military or standard? The military (fluted barrel) model cost more; it must be a better rifle. The answer to that is, No! A fluted barrel does not do a thing for an airsoft rifle. But it does make it look cool, a true fluted barrel reduces weight, add stiffness and improve cooling of the rifle all of witch we donít need in an airsoft rifle.
We are also talking about the version 2 rifles and not the version 1 models that had so many problems with internal parts and needed some work to upgrade it. Now that I have said the word upgrades letís talk about what upgrades can be had with the M24 V2 rifle. I think the most basic off the starting line upgrade most go for is to upgraded the FPS by upgrading the bolt and its internal parts. You can buy a new bolt-upgrade kit for $100 from Classic Army; the kit includes a Stainless Steel Bolt Body, Spring Guide, spring 300%, and the head cone. Now others do make bolt parts like Systema, PDI and few others. I will also talk about other parts of the rifle that can be upgraded when I get to that part of the rifle.
Lets talk about the stock bolt some, a lot of guyís have asked on Airsoft Zone and other websites. Why canít I upgrade the stock bolt with a new spring? Well the stock spring OD is 9mm and the hole in the back of the stock piston is just over ID 10mm. Most of the upgrade springs have an OD 13mm. Also the stock bolt body is made of thin sheet metal, has a short life span.
Now some of you ask why not get an APS, well the basic internals are much better in the M24. No need to spend $178 for a trigger, like with the APS. The version 2 models of the M24 can handle a 300% spring without a problem. I have used the 300%, 250% and 200% and all work great but you will find with the 250% and 200% less force is needed to cock back the bolt.
One nice thing about the version 2 is the, adjustable hop-up. Both of the Classic Army models Bull Barrel and the Military one, with the Fluted barrel. Come with adjustable hop-up. All that you need to do is remove the magazine and pull back the bolt to see a setscrew inside the mag well. Now most times the mag well would be next to the trigger guard, not on the M24. The M24 has well what you could call a dead mag well; it has a well that has a metal-hinged cover. When you open this you will see part of the trigger body. The true mag well is in front of the trigger guard body front screw. The M24 mag is the same as used in the APS and Rem 700 model airsoft rifles itís a 25 round-staggered mag. One note care for the mag, itís made of plastic and with poor care will cause problems with the mag.
Both of the M24 models have a great copy of the H-S Pension M24 SWS adjustable stock. This stock also has three-sling stud, one in the rear and two in front on the forearm. One of studs on the forearm can be used for a sling and the other to mount a Harris bi-pod on for that added stability when shooting.
Few items you will need, that do not come with your rifle. A bi-pod first let me say save your money do not buy the Classic Army model bi-pod. Buy a Harris, the cost is about the same but with the Harris you get better quality and a warranty. Next on the list is a scope and rings, now you can spend all kinds of money here depending on what kind of scope you want and rings. I have three rules that I use for this, 1. Needs to fit the range and accrucey of the rifle? 2. Cost 3. Does it look killer on my rifle? Now to rings, most important part is size. You want the bell, the front part of the scope to clear the action and barrel (Not to touch). Also check to see that the eye Obj. will not be in the way of the bolt handle. Other item you can get for your scope are Butler Creek flip up scope caps, they make both see threw and ones that have to be up to see threw the scope. You can also by a sunshade, but thatís a waste of money and you canít always put one on a scope that you may buy. One item that is better and can fit almost all scopes is an ARD, same item used by the US Army on the M24 SWS. You should see it in the photo of my M24. Few other items are a nice leather sling, a good hard gun case or drag bag for your rifle. You can also get a check rest and scope cover. So much can be had if you have the money to spend.
I almost forgot about accrucey, well my rifle shoots 460 FPS with a 200% spring with .23 Excel BBís, my groupís at 150í are 3-5Ē. I have talked with other M24 owners and have been told of better groups and some not so good of groups. I will tell you this it is something you will have to work at. Remember that airsoft guns do not have rifling and the accrucey come by way of the backspin from the hop-up. Well good luck with your new rifle!

Photo's are on the way

Agrovale
08-30-2003, 06:56 PM
Doesn't PDI manufacture the M24 and sell them to Classic Army?

HaHa
08-31-2003, 02:44 AM
Hmm... thanks for that extensive review Big Dog. I was leaning towards the APS 2, but I'm kinda leaning towards the M24 now. I'd still like to hear more about the PSG-1 as well. If anyone has one and would like to offer me some input, I'd appreicate it.
Either way, I'll be up in Austin tomorrow. Hopefully I'll make up my mind about all this then.

Dark
08-31-2003, 03:23 AM
Isn't the Kar 98 a pretty good sniper rifle?

Big Dog
08-31-2003, 03:42 AM
Well I can help with the PSG-1, sorry to say it has a few down fall's. The scope mount tends to move around some. Space for a battery in the stock is not vary good, you have to buy a custom battery or use a min. It looks cool, but not worth the money...Now if you want a AEG go with a G3SG1 and build it up... It has a V2 gear box, so upgrade parts are not a problem, you can also get a full metal body for it... Two kinds of scope mounts are made for it.

As for the Kar 98, its not a bad gun. But in the cold the bolt does not hold gas well. Its got a wood stock, don't get it wet. Then you have the cost......

You can check out some of my toy's here, its not up to date...

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/b4b11

poison heart
06-21-2004, 11:35 PM
well im not an expert, but i dont think that its true to say you have to put $500 for a sniper rifle to compete with an AEG. I have an unmodified m24 and an unmodified G3-SG1, and my M24 shoots way faster and has a lot more range than the G3. i can hit this telephone pole, about 60 yards, with my M24 and my G3 doesnt make it that far without aiming about 3 feet above where i want to hit.

Now to the M24. I have the version 2 without the fluted barrel. I love it. I have never shot or seen anyone shoot an APS. So I cant compare the 2. Ive heard that the M24 shoots at only 280 FPS, the same as the maruis. I have never chronoed them but my M24 is a lot faster than the AEGs. The only problem ive had with the M24 is all the screws. Yes, it is true they do get lose quite often. On mine, the 2 main screws that bolt the gun to the barrel stripped out after a few times of takin it apart. That is why i havent upgraded it. If anyone knows where i can get new screws please contact me. The M24 also has adjustable hop up and adjustable stock which are awesome. I think some of the APS' dont have adjustable hop up. and i was looking to get a new sniper rifle and i wanted the APS 2 with the wood stock. but i found out that its only .6 joules and no adjustable hop up. so that turned me off of the APS. but i am still lookin to buy a new sniper rifle. preferably one with a wood stock and adjustable hop up. if yall know of any lets me know. So the M24 is awesome besides all the screws. It is really heavy(AWESOME!), 12 lbs with scope and bipod, and built like a rock. I would recomend it but i havent shot any other sniper rifles. I would buy it again. I think it looks the best too.

Big Dog
06-22-2004, 12:49 AM
Man talking about a dead dog, that post is almost a year old. To much free time hu?

See you did not read it, its no to compete with AEG, man when my gun was stock, I could out shoot most AEG's. First day got 4 guys at over 80y. Now my gun is 470FPS with .25's and gets well past 250Feet. :eek:

When I talk price, I'm also not talking about a CA M24, I have a PDI M24 SWS. That was befor CA got the ok to make them. Its all that you want to put in, I have way over that amount in my gun now. With the Tac scope,ARD, Harris, scope cover and few other item and all the custom work. Well we are talking $2,000

But thing is, I do this full time, build and work on custom airsoft rifles and pistols.
Go with what you need and what is good for you. And what money you have to spend.

AustinWolv
06-22-2004, 08:11 AM
Past 250 yards? I have to call bullshit on that.

Bstann
06-22-2004, 09:50 AM
Have to agree with Wolv on that one. I have three sniper rifles all firing 550 and none of them will shoot that far. Maybe you meant 250 ft? And definitely not with .25's. Unless you count the floating off in the distance. :D

AustinWolv
06-22-2004, 10:32 AM
If he is talking about feet in his post instead of yards (80y = 80 feet, 250y = 250 feet), then I'd believe it a bit more. Even 250 feet is stretching it, as that is about 85 yards.

As you can see here (http://www.renegaderecon.com/article_details.php?id=55), a stock APS can't even hit a live target at 50m, which is only 54 yards, so I seriously doubt a stock PDI M24 is going to be effective at 80 yards. This is of course assuming they are shooting at or near the same muzzle velocity.


Man talking about a dead dog, that post is almost a year old. To much free time hu? Not sure if that was meant as a joke or not, but the tone wasn't very friendly. poison_heart probably did a search and found the topic, which is precisely what is encouraged around these boards. Kudos to him for taking the initiative to do that.
Semi-auto sniper rifles are more effective than bolt-action anyway, from what many have seen in the community we skirmish in.

Big Dog
06-23-2004, 10:33 PM
Re read it, its not a stock gun....and its feet, that was my screw up. My mind was working faster then my hands can move.

and yes that was a joke, lighten up some....

AustinWolv
06-23-2004, 10:38 PM
1. Jokes are not communicated well over the Internet, as we cannot see the non-verbal signs that humans depend on when interacting with other humans. This is a common problem on Internet forums and email. Thus, emoticons came to be. Such as this: :) That smilie is to denote that there are no hard feelings, but I would recommend writing with more clarity so people don't take it the wrong way.

2. This following quote implies a stock gun.
man when my gun was stock, I could out shoot most AEG's. First day got 4 guys at over 80y. Now my gun is 470FPS with .25's and gets well past 250Feet. The second part of that quote denotes an upgraded gun. Thus, we responded the way we did.