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Infrared
07-02-2004, 10:53 AM
I am not trying to offend anybody or anything but why would you need to carry a 8lbs Tac Vest, Clip Holsters.(you have a vest, use it) A Knife(why would you need a knife?) 2 gas pistols(you only need one) a 8-10lbs Rifle, a flash light(its not dark out side) 400-1000 BB's and you still have to run and dodge bullets with all that gear.I mean why would you want to carry stuff like that. Can you not just carry a rifle a pistol and a few clips on your person? You would move faster with out all that fancy gear.

-Infrared

Obsidian
07-02-2004, 11:08 AM
Where are you going to carry water. I carry 4 AK magazines when I am running the SR47. Those would not fit in pockets. I carry a Radio and GPS which would not fit in pockets full of magazines. You might be able to move faster but you would not be able to stay out there very long because your travelling so light.

AustinWolv
07-02-2004, 11:29 AM
1. Magazines, not clips. I carry 6 AK hi-caps when I carry my RPK or AK47. I carry as many as 12 M16 mags (standards, plus a couple hi-caps) if I carry my SR16. As for other AEGs I have, I carry multiple magazines.
2. When I use those magazines, where do I stick them? In a dump pouch, as that is easier and quicker than trying to get them back in a mag pouch.
3. I carry a small knife, as I have used it to cut paracord, zip ties, etc. Not often, but I'd rather have it rather than having to trudge back to the parking lot. That is the same reason people carry 100mph tape, multi-tools (which are very handy for quick field repairs), and zip-ties on their person.
4. I don't carry a flashlight, but I would if we played at night. What if I needed to find something I dropped? ;)
5. Water is important. Definitely need to carry that.
6. Radio is very helpful to squad interaction/teamwork.
7. 400-1000 BBs? LOL! You haven't skirmished with us yet. In my 6 AK hi-caps alone, those hold 3600 rounds, of which I have used ALL of them in one day before. Other days, I might not even go through 1 or 2 of those mags. In addition, I carry about 2000 extra rounds on me.
8. Pistol and 1 mag. That's all that is needed, in my opinion, for the skirmishing we do.
9. Moving fast doesn't mean much when someone dumps full-auto on you. They just need to learn to lead appropriately for the situation.

Katana
07-02-2004, 11:35 AM
I'm not offended. I only operate a light rig in the deep summertime, anyhow. And I never carry more than one sidearm.

As for all the other stuff, you train as you fight as you train. If you get into something, you don't often have the luxury of feeling around to figure out if you've got something on you or not. After figuring out what works for you, always carry a full standard load, in the same place, and you won't have to waste a thought on if you've got something on you or not, and where it might be if you do have it.

The vest I wear isn't 8lbs until it's loaded with all the stuff you list. I carry additional magazine pouches on subloads because I generally operate mostly standard magazines, so I carry anywhere from 8 to 16 of them. A multi-tool (knife) is pretty much a requirement if you play this sport for any reasonable amount of time, and a combat knife is handy for cutting vines and doing other kinds of grunt field-prep in and around any fighting position you hole up in (might as well make yourself at home if you're going to be there a while... I don't want to roll around in thorns and stuff if I can easily cut it away). I only carry one sidearm but I carry 4 or more magazines for it, because I've emptied them all before; either to fight an entire skirmish when my rifle went down early, or to extract myself from a situation bad enough that I already emptied all of my rifle magazines. The rifle is 8-10 pounds because I've played for almost 5-6 years now and I still have the first rifle I used (all those metal replacement parts make a plasticky toy last and last). The flashlight is there for the a-fore mentioned reason of having a rig standardized (I especially don't want to be fumbling around in the dark, looking for things), and we skirmish in the afternoon/evenings and if I drop a magazine or something out on the field I really don't want to leave the area I dropped it to go back and get a flashlight if it starts getting dark. I carry hundreds upon hundreds of bb's if I'm running a SAW, and for my team-mates to reload off of if they need to (that's something to bear in mind... not all of this kit is a personal load, but some is for the team). As for running and dodging bullets... I certainly can run, just ask anyone that's seen me on the field, and as far as dodging bullets goes, you should never have to dodge them, or your tactics have failed.

Generally, even with a full load of backpack, lots of water, vest, subload, and 1st-line load, I can be extremely mobile for short spurts, which is all that should ever be required. If you're running around all the time, from bunker to bunker for example, you're not playing airsoft. You're playing on a paintball court. In the airsoft sport I enjoy, there's lots of patrolling, ambushing, and most of the fight is determined by strategy and less by personal acrobatics. When we go out to Hunters or Maypearl, or whereever, I use the majority of the field in a war of maneuver and counter-maneuver. Sometimes it does turn out that you need to run around all over the place, but that should only be during an immediate action situation.

AustinWolv
07-02-2004, 11:39 AM
Well-said, many of the same points I wanted to bring up, but didn't want to take the time to type up until later. Thanks for doing it for me! :D

Katana
07-02-2004, 11:41 AM
Well-said, many of the same points I wanted to bring up, but didn't want to take the time to type up until later. Thanks for doing it for me! :D

Bah... it's one big block of stream-of-conciousness gobbledeegook. I shoulda formatted it like you did.

cclark1985
07-02-2004, 12:32 PM
Bah... it's one big block of stream-of-conciousness gobbledeegook. I shoulda formatted it like you did.

And word of the day IS... gobbledeegook! It could mean so many things. Perhaps a reference to a turkey, or maybe even Asian folk...

Mack4
07-02-2004, 12:54 PM
A friend of mine asked me that same question Infrared when we were heading out to the ill-fated Operation Rough Cut, and I had all my crap laid out on the bed. I figure it this way; if I don't bring something then I or someone else will need it. Really, when you think about it 10lbs in a good Load Bearing Vest with chest straps and a wide belt isn't all that bad, I have carried upwards of 30 lbs in external frame packs while hiking and as long as the weight is on your hips, it really ain't all that bad. Plus it just looks so damned cool.
-Mack

benc64
07-02-2004, 02:26 PM
when you think about it 10lbs in a good Load Bearing Vest with chest straps and a wide belt isn't all that bad
It could be that because Infrared is 14 and maybe has a small frame, walking around with 10-15 pounds of gear isn't that easy. I remember last summer I went on a 75 mile backpacking trek in the New Mexican mountains, and I had a 65 pound pack. I didn't find it very heavy, but some of my friends (who had smaller frames) tried picking it up and walking around, they struggled. So, Infrared, remember that most of the guys who carry these extensive loads are full grown men who can bear the burden much more easily. I assume of course that you aren't some 14 year old - 6' 5", 250 pound, already been recruited by Miami - behemoth :p . I'm guessing you are an average 14 year old guy.

AustinWolv
07-02-2004, 02:42 PM
benc, good, logical post.

Consider carrying the extra weight a good way to get some extra exercise and get in shape. :D

Katana
07-02-2004, 02:46 PM
benc, good, logical post.

Consider carrying the extra weight a good way to get some extra exercise and get in shape. :D

That makes a good argument for me to play more often. Thanks Wolv! Now we need to skirmish 3 times a week.

skitelluride531
07-02-2004, 02:54 PM
I'm all for that :) .

nschrein
07-02-2004, 10:01 PM
Every game some guy comes out with no gear. Almost every game, a guy without gear loses a magazine. Fact is that running, hitting the ground, dodging and going for cover creates many times where magazines and what not can easily, easily fall out. I see it almost every game.

Plus gear is part of airsoft, dare I say it, military simulation (I know some of you don't agree), but really, its part of the look and adds to the environment and atmosphere of the game.

You know whats funny though. Sometimes at games I'll bring 4 magazines, sometimes 6. Though, I usually only use 2 the entire day.

DoctorNo
07-03-2004, 06:44 PM
It could be that because Infrared is 14 and maybe has a small frame, walking around with 10-15 pounds of gear isn't that easy. I remember last summer I went on a 75 mile backpacking trek in the New Mexican mountains, and I had a 65 pound pack. I didn't find it very heavy, but some of my friends (who had smaller frames) tried picking it up and walking around, they struggled.

Sounds like someone went to Philmont. :) I was there in 1995 ... one of the best times of my life. I weighed 135 at the time, and weighed my pack in at the first food drop at 65lbs. We had some whiney POS who couldn't handle his share, so we all took the rest of his junk on our own.

Man, I miss those days. Although it's kind of sick - my regular airsoft rig weighs in at about 55lbs. :)

Doc

benc64
07-03-2004, 09:18 PM
Sounds like someone went to Philmont. :)
No doubt about that. I have so many stories from that trip that it's ridiculous. I weigh about 245, so the 65 lb. pack wasn't bad for me at all.

We had some whiney POS who couldn't handle his share
I had a guy on my trek who fits this same description. We didn't find out until the last day of the trek that he hadn't been carrying any trek gear (i.e. bear ropes, food, stoves) the entire time. Considering the fact that most of the weight of my pack was trek gear, I was pretty furious. We made him carry all of the trash to the final camp, he complained about it the for the whole hike, though none of us gave a damn.

Mack4
07-04-2004, 01:38 AM
Anyways, It is always better to have it with you then to be in the middle of a game asking someone if you can borrow a screwdriver. At the very least you can get a wide military style belt and hang a couple of army surplus pouches off of it.
And yes, backpacking rules; if only we could combine airsoft with backpacking :)
-Mack

nschrein
07-04-2004, 10:08 AM
Do you smell an Op idea cookin up?

DoctorNo
07-04-2004, 11:28 AM
Benc - find me at one of the skirmishes and we can swap a few stories.

It's been suggested and arranged before, but interest levels were not high enough. I'm not there's a place where there's enough land to do what we needed. Most places get a bit frowny when you carry firearms around ...

Doc

benc64
07-04-2004, 11:53 AM
Benc - find me at one of the skirmishes and we can swap a few stories.
Will do.

Ya, an airsoft/backpacker OP sounds incredibly fun. It would be awesome to have a multiple day event over a huge piece of land. The problem would be finding the land (as you said) and enough people to make it fun. The idea of carrying everything that you would need for several days of fighting sounds really cool.

nschrein
07-04-2004, 02:32 PM
A guy in my group owns 2000 acres of land up in North Texas, if your looking for land that is...

cclark1985
07-04-2004, 11:32 PM
Land that actually has trees... and hills... No desert please.

nschrein
07-04-2004, 11:40 PM
Land that actually has trees... and hills... No desert please.

And land up north doesn't have trees and hills?

For the record, the land isn't in Lubbock, infact its 2 and a half hours away nearing the Caprock Canyons.

Mouse
07-04-2004, 11:53 PM
Might i chime in that i too went to Philmont the same summer that bench did.
(We're in the same troop.)

It was a very rewarding experience, i weighed about 120 at the time and traveled 101.6 miles while carrying a 55 pound pack....which was incredibly disproportional to my body weight...but it was fun just the same.

In airsoft i carry about 20 pounds worth of gear, mostly water, and i find that it doesn't burden me too much.

The weight of gear doesn't matter, it's one's mental attitude about carrying it! :)

Mack4
07-05-2004, 12:13 AM
If you guys could find a place to do it, I'd show up with my mates! Maybe a very forgiving Lease Holder, if you used Bio Degradable ammo you might find land owners a tad more receptive.
Hey Mouse, how much weight did you loose? When I came off the top of Antero I looked like a holocaust victim :)
-Mack

Arsenic
07-05-2004, 01:33 AM
I would be very interested in an Op where you have to hump everything you need for a few days.Makes it realistic!

Infrared
07-05-2004, 09:18 PM
It could be that because Infrared is 14 and maybe has a small frame, walking around with 10-15 pounds of gear isn't that easy. I remember last summer I went on a 75 mile backpacking trek in the New Mexican mountains, and I had a 65 pound pack. I didn't find it very heavy, but some of my friends (who had smaller frames) tried picking it up and walking around, they struggled. So, Infrared, remember that most of the guys who carry these extensive loads are full grown men who can bear the burden much more easily. I assume of course that you aren't some 14 year old - 6' 5", 250 pound, already been recruited by Miami - behemoth :p . I'm guessing you are an average 14 year old guy.


I am 6"1' and i weight 145lbs and i have never been recruited by miami(what is that?) and i am 14 years old. I have been on long backpacking trips to. It was a 45 mile walk with my dad's old frame.(he is 450lbs.) so it was pinching me so hard i could barely breath.

-Infrared

skitelluride531
07-05-2004, 09:28 PM
I am 6"1' and i weight 145lbs and i have never been recruited by miami(what is that?) and i am 14 years old. I have been on long backpacking trips to. It was a 45 mile walk with my dad's old frame.(he is 450lbs.) so it was pinching me so hard i could barely breath.

-Infrared
I am assuming he was talking about football.

Arsenic
07-05-2004, 10:04 PM
I'm guessing the same thing....perhaps the Miami Dolphins?

AustinWolv
07-05-2004, 10:40 PM
The University of Miami, as in the Hurricanes for college football. It was merely an example the person used to state that he was fairly certain the person in question is of average size, not one of the few incredible athletes that exist in our population and thus would be attracting the attention of college recruiters already. :)

Polaris
07-06-2004, 10:12 AM
I'm going to Philmont next year.

benc64
07-06-2004, 10:59 AM
The University of Miami, as in the Hurricanes for college football. It was merely an example the person used to state that he was fairly certain the person in question is of average size, not one of the few incredible athletes that exist in our population and thus would be attracting the attention of college recruiters already. :)
Exactly

I'm going to Philmont next year
Good, anyone who has the opportunity to go, needs to. It was one of the best experiences of my life.

R4lph
07-10-2004, 11:46 PM
I also went to Philmont, with mouse actually. It really is on of the best experiences you will ever have. My pack weighed about 67 lbs when we left (a lot of it was water though) and I weighed about 196. Being on top of one mountain and looking out in every direction as far as you can see is very a awsome event and would satisfy most. But looking back on that shorter mountain you were on 6 days and 60ish miles ago from Mount Baldy is even more rewarding. Just thought i'd share :)

benc64
07-11-2004, 01:27 AM
We have too many Troop 30 scouts on Maelstrom;)

Dragon
07-11-2004, 07:48 PM
Please, get back on topic. This is supposed to be about gear, not Philmont.

Phaedrus
08-13-2004, 05:33 PM
Please, get back on topic. This is supposed to be about gear, not Philmont.


Thank you Dragon for keeping us on track.

Although the initiator of this thread painted verbally an amusing caricature, I don't know that I've seen anyone who fits this description. If someone does hats off to your physical strength and endurance.

I would sum up many airsofters' experience with gear as involving PREPAREDNESS. I suspect, just as with backpacking, there is a significant number of folks who recognize and prepare for dealing with Murphy's Law, and the lack of preparedness of those around them. An earlier contributor appropriately referenced the TEAMWORK and reciprocal support involved in airsoft and military simulations. I feel this is a critical component of belonging to any team. Perhaps there is much to learn about this as one graduates from adolescence and progresses into young adulthood. I say this not as an attack, but as an honest reflection.

Also, with regard to carrying an assault/survival/tactical knife (or what have you), I carry one with me to get as much use out of the investment as I can.

I hope this adds further clarification to your inquiry.
Phaedrus out...