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benc64
05-16-2004, 11:59 PM
I've been looking for information on different brands of red dot scopes but can't seem to find any. I was wondering if anybody could recommend a good brand. I've seen that Guarder makes one, is it any good?
Thanks

Mouse
05-17-2004, 12:13 AM
I see you're going for a counterstrike look for your Sig552. :D

benc64
05-17-2004, 12:18 AM
That's the idea, although I'll keep my suppressor which hides my extended barrel.
Now, back to business, lets talk aimpoint scopes - someone tell me about a good model.

AustinWolv
05-17-2004, 09:10 AM
someone tell me about a good model. Better yet, YOU go research what the good models are.
As a favor, here you go:
http://www.airsoftretreat.com/features/reviews/samuraiscope/

Simply go to a few forums out there and type "aimpoint"; you'll find all the info you need.

Either that or just buy a real Aimpoint.

benc64
05-17-2004, 09:19 AM
Does anybody else have an opinion on a certain brand?

Katana
05-17-2004, 02:00 PM
Yes. I think that Aimpoint makes the best Aimpoint scope. I really like their CompM and CompM2 models, although the newer one is certainly tops when it comes to battery life. I also like the QD mount you can get, as it makes it much easier to swap the sight from replica to replica. Also, I found that a wee bit of shimming was necessary to bring the aiming dot to within adjustment range of the point of impact at 30 yards.

Anyhow, Aimpoint definitely makes the best Aimpoints. I would also recommend purchasing them new through SWFA.

AustinWolv
05-17-2004, 02:06 PM
:D
;)
{Laughing out loud}

benc64
05-18-2004, 12:27 AM
You must have laughed REALLY hard because you put two whole smilie faces. Try using English next time, it's the language we use in these forums, I don't think "lol" is in a dictionary.
In case ya'll didn't catch it from the title, I'm not in the market for a real Aimpoint, hence I asked about information concerning "Aimpoint-style" scopes. A simple posting of that website would have suited my needs.

AustinWolv
05-18-2004, 12:45 AM
You got yourself a big mouth, huh? Yes, you are correct, I did laugh pretty well at your laziness in regards to not being mature enough to go search the Internet for reviews and comments on the various replica Aimpoint sights.

First of all, an Aimpoint as we commonly know it is a red dot sight, not a scope. In other words, learn what you are talking about before you start mouthing off.

Secondly, where in your post or thread title does it mention anything about a replica? It says "Aimpoint-style", but I don't see "knock-off" or "replica" listed anywhere in your message. Before you get lippy, try being complete in the description of the item you are seeking.

Third, just because you got called out for not conducting some self-initiated research as the board rules mandate, you don't need to get all pissy.
Let us review:

2. Please do not post topics or replies containing subjects which have already been discussed numerous times (please search first)


Fourth, since you had a problem with "LOL", I changed it just for you. I'll try not to bruise your sensitive ego next time by being amused by another member's post, regardless if it was sarcastic or serious.

Lastly, since this isn't your first time causing strife on this board, feel free to let me know if you would like your access modified.

Better yet, feel free to let me know why I shouldn't modify your forum permissions, as I may be in the wrong here. Or not.

Falcon
05-18-2004, 01:06 AM
Benc64- not trying to be a jerk or anything (so please don't take this the wrong way) but I saw this thread and the term "Aimpoint-style" struck me as being vague. Do you mean red dot sights in general or only ones that specifically look like the Comp series that Katana mentioned? I would have expected a lot more comments here on red dots (if that's what you meant) since virtually everyone uses one that I've seen at TXPb. So maybe the problem is that no one feels like they have enough experience (save for Katana) with the Aimpoint replicas to post here, or aren't sure what you are really asking?

benc64
05-18-2004, 01:14 AM
Why you shouldn't modify my forum permissions:

-I began this thread strictly because I wanted information on replica Aimpoint sights, you chose to answer my request with a reply that contained more than a hint of sarcasm in it

-Your next post (the one with the smilies and the "laughing out loud") was unneccessary, and had it not been posted, it wouldn't have provoked these last few posts by you and I

-I'm sorry that I did not include the word 'replica' with my original post, I will be more clear next time

-I did attempt research on my own for the better part of an hour, but it did not yield the page that you posted

-I mentioned the 'lol' only because you have used the same "use the English language" phrase on others

I believe that those reasons make it obvious that banning me from the forums need not be facilitated by you. Although it may have seemed so, there was no animosity meant in my previous post, it was only out of frustration that I wrote it. Please accept this as an apology.

AustinWolv
05-18-2004, 01:37 AM
Fairly stated, as I can respect a good explanation like that. I also step back and offer an apology for the harsh tone of my previous post.

However, point out to me anywhere in this following post of mine that hints at sarcasm. Instead, it merely reinforces one of the board guidelines: Search first.

Better yet, YOU go research what the good models are.
As a favor, here you go:
http://www.airsoftretreat.com/featu...s/samuraiscope/

Simply go to a few forums out there and type "aimpoint"; you'll find all the info you need.

Either that or just buy a real Aimpoint.

That post is more than adequate in answering part of your question and pushing you towards the rest. If you spent almost an hour researching, you should have found a LOT of info out there:
http://www.airsoftplayers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1874&SearchTerms=aimpoint
http://www.airsoftplayers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1022&SearchTerms=aimpoint
http://www.airsoftretreat.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=41250&SearchTerms=aimpoint
http://www.airsoftretreat.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=42772&SearchTerms=aimpoint
http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/beta/html/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=16262&highlight=aimpoint
http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/beta/html/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=16053&highlight=aimpoint
http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/beta/html/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=15819&highlight=aimpoint

Finding the links above literally took me from 12:20am to 12:29am. It shouldn't take you that much longer to find them on your own, as that was just a small sampling of the info out there. Reading through them is obviously another story. Point being, like I stated earlier, run a search first, learn about the product, and then it is perfectly cool to come back to this board and see if any local players have any opinions and/or experience with the product. Otherwise, you are just asking to be spoon-fed and that is not the point of these boards.

I posted the smilies because the previous post was funny IMO. It is not my problem if you took offense to that.

Your attempt at admonishing me for using "lol" was lame at best and was merely a ploy to be a smartass. There is a large difference between "hey, can ne1 help me need a gun to shoot bb at ppl, hope u can tell me wat is gud" and "lol". The board rules were intended to prevent the first, but not the second, since the second is basically the Internet equivalent of a emotional reaction that cannot be conveyed over message boards via typed communication, not a verbal response which can be replicated in a typed explanation.

Have a good night.

Agrovale
05-18-2004, 09:38 AM
Not to be a dick, but:

LOL
abbr.
laughing out loud.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Katana
05-18-2004, 10:51 AM
Alrighty then...

Anyhoo, I've not seen a single Aimport 'replica' that's worth the money. All the ones I've seen have been relatively cheap, and I've seen a number of them break when stressed. The breaks have occured in various areas, up to and including the on-off switch.

The only halfway decent real-scope replica of anything that I've ever seen was of an Trijicon ACOG, and I'm not sure who made. Even with that item, I was concerned about the strength of the mounting brackets.

I'd recommend in the strongest possible language that people not purchase the replica red-dots, but instead purchase the real thing. The real thing was made to take punishment. The replica's are not. The real thing can be mounted on a quick-disconnect mount that will allow you to rapidly move the sight from one replica to another, without having to purchase multiple sights (although you will have to deal with the sight being off, and will need to re-zero it). I don't consider a replica red-dot sight a viable skirmish-rated component.

farmcoot
05-18-2004, 11:19 AM
I agree with Katana. Red-dots are one of those things that you get what you pay for. I have done things to my Kobra that I'm sure a replica would not have withstood the abuse.

AustinWolv
05-18-2004, 11:31 AM
That being said, an inexpensive BSA reddot sight will be fine for Airsoft as well, as long as the user is aware that it will not hold up nearly as well as an Aimpoint, EOTech, Trijicon, or Kobra. It all depends on the user's budget.

Being a player who has two real Aimpoints (CompM2 and CompM XD), along with a G&P Aimpoint replica, the differences are apparent, even though the cosmetics are very well done. The switch on the G&P does not move cleanly and just keeps rotating, which is disconcerting in that you aren't quite sure when you are at the max setting or the "off" setting and that there is the potential that it will be accidentally left on at some point. The build quality is obviously subpar to the real Aimpoint, along with the dot not being as bright or as clean, ie. the G&P dot is fuzzy. While I haven't used the G&P replica in the field, so I can't speak to its' durability or field use, I have used the Aimpoints for almost two years, and they are very rugged and can take anything that I can throw at them. The same can be said for the Trijicon ReflexII I have. These products leave me feeling comfortable that they can be beat up in the field and not be damaged, whereas the G&P doesn't.

That being said, I believe there is one local player who uses the G&P replica regularly, but I don't know his opinions on it.

skitelluride531
05-18-2004, 05:23 PM
I have used the G&P Aimpoint replica in the recent Austin OP, and in several weekly skirmishes. I would agree with Wolv in that the turn nob to adjust the brightness is confusing. As Wolv said, there are no notches in it to stop it when you get to a certain light setting. Other than that, it seemed to hold out pretty well, except the batteries died very quickly. Performance wise, although I like the look of the Aimpoint replica versus the Walther red dot (similar to the BSA mentioned above) that I had before, the performance of the Walther red dot was a lot better in my opinion. If you are looking for an inexpensive red dot that works well, I would recommend the BSA red dot sight as well.

Hope that helped! :)

Mack4
05-18-2004, 06:32 PM
www.combatdepot.com has some, as does ebay. What price range were you looking for? If you just want it for the looks then who cares if it is el cheapo de la diablo, I mean honestly how many people REALLY use their sights on a Airsoft gun, most of the cats I see use the bb's like tracer rounds. I will ask one of my teammates about his replica aimpoint, then get back to yah- good luck!
-Mack

AustinWolv
05-18-2004, 06:33 PM
I mean honestly how many people REALLY use their sights on a Airsoft gun I haven't seen any formal polls, but I know a number of guys down here use them.

Mack4
05-18-2004, 07:05 PM
"Most of the cats I see use the bb's like tracer rounds." This statement was based on my own personal experiences with the people I play with down here in Tyler.

Hey, I just dug this up off the internet very cool optic. Its unique "inverted" sighting plane looks ideal for the upward arc of 6mm bb's under the influence of hop-up back spin, also it is a little bit cheaper than a Aimpoint: http://www.amerisurp.net/scopes_trilux.htm
-Mack

BigLucky
05-18-2004, 07:23 PM
Hey, I just dug this up off the internet very cool optic. Its unique "inverted" sighting plane looks ideal for the upward arc of 6mm bb's under the influence of hop-up back spin, also it is a little bit cheaper than a Aimpoint: http://www.amerisurp.net/scopes_trilux.htm
-Mack

That looks pretty cool. It looks like it only mounts on an M16/M4 style carry handle however.

As far as the original question goes, when it comes to red dot sights I am a big fan of reflex sights. That is what I have on my M4. You can get a pretty good quality reflex sight for around 50 bucks on ebay.

Agrovale
05-18-2004, 08:10 PM
It does look cool. But it is 4X magnification. A little bit of overkill for airsoft! :)

Mouse
05-18-2004, 11:29 PM
I had a G&P Aimpoint replica on my SR25 and when it used to be an SR16. It looks pretty cool...but i realized that i never use it.

I think some players would agree with me when i say scopes/sights in airsoft can be kinda funny in that no matter how many scopes, red dots, laser pointers or whatever a player has attached to their gun, you'll still often use the "aim by error" tactic...sometimes its not even concious....it just kinda happens.

In my opinion....an red dot scope/sight is impractical for airsoft guns because the guns we use are simply not accurate enough for them to be of much use.

On the G&P aimpoint...it is a very durable model and it's easy to use. The only downside i would have to say is that i am almost 99% positive that the one i had drained batteries when it wasn't even on. I put in new batteries the, turned the scope on to make sure it worked, turned it off and the next day at the game the batteries were dead. This happened to me about 3 times. I started just taking the batteries out of the sight after use so i wouldn't have to waste more money on batteries.

Hope this was helpful/constructive :rolleyes:

AustinWolv
05-19-2004, 01:08 AM
an red dot scope/sight is impractical for airsoft guns because the guns we use are simply not accurate enough for them to be of much use Disagree. When I used my SR16 as my primary weapon, I was able to double-tap opposing players many times just be putting my dot on them. I know others have done the same as well.

There is an even more concrete example of this in that I was able to use visible and IR lasers as aiming devices at night in which a few semi-auto shots eliminated the target.

You are correct in that relatively speaking, Airsoft weapons are inaccurate, but they are still accurate enough to make RDS' and other short-range aiming devices useful.

Now that I've been using support weapons for the past few months, I still find myself lining up the iron sights or RDS for the initial burst, which has been helpful at least part of the time.

Katana
05-19-2004, 11:17 AM
Assuming no or little wind and that I've cleaned my barrel, my Aimpoint is zeroed so as to be within 6" of the point of impact at 30 yards. That means that I don't have to make many ranging shots.

Also, beyond just being zero'd properly, the red dot is an easy to visualize point of reference to cue off of for when you have discovered that you DO have to compensate. Last weekend, there was a point in a game where I was having to aim approximately one yard over and above a player's left-hand shoulder. Having the dot meant I could stay behind cover and be able to rapidly pop around, acquire and engage with an almost guaranteed point of impact within 3" of the target at 15 yards. Look at how big 3" is on your arm, or neck, or shoulder, and you'll see that while it isn't anything even remotely approaching the 1MOA accuracy of a decent real rifle, this level of accuracy isn't half bad for an airsoft skirmish.

Using your sights, regardless of whether they are iron or electronic, means you have a reference where you can reliably bring your replica to bear on a target, even after you've erased your original laying of the weapon by ducking behind cover or otherwise changing your position, your posture, or what have you. An electronic sight is generally easier to spot, and can almost always be zero'd onto the desired point of impact, through shimming, mechanical adjustment of the way it mounts, the built in adjustment pots, or some other method. The same can't be said for the replica's iron sights, which mimic something that needs to only change a fraction of as much and were used for aiming something with a much flatter and more predictable trajectory.

Not using your sights means that you're always going to be relying mostly on luck for your first shot, and then have to make several ranging shots immediately afterward. If this is the reason so many people shoot on full auto all the time, then it's just the result of sloppy marksmanship.

I highly recommend using your sights, and I highly recommend using an electronic sight, such as a red dot.

Fieroloki
05-25-2004, 05:01 PM
I have the Guarder 1x30 Reflex Red Dot Sight (Advanced) from combatdepot.com and love it. Been through alot and still keeps on ticking. :)

Polaris
06-01-2004, 10:30 AM
ebay is banning the sale of all assault weapon parts and accessories beginning on june 8th just to let ya'll know.

Agrovale
06-01-2004, 11:50 AM
Do you have a link or anything to back that up?

AustinWolv
06-01-2004, 11:53 AM
Ebay recently sent an update email that I promptly deleted, but I recall the content was similar to what he is saying. However, I cannot find any info in the Ebay Policy section about it. All I found was their current stance.

However, this discussion has nothing to do with the original topic, so it can continue in different thread, if needed.

skitelluride531
06-01-2004, 12:13 PM
Here is the email I received:

"Important Notice: Hunting Guidelines and Category Changes

New Guidelines
The following guideline changes, which limit what can be sold on eBay, will take effect June 8th, 2004:

The sale of any assault weapon-related parts or accessories will not be permitted (applies to all parts and accessories related to any firearm defined as an "assault weapon" by federal or California law).
The sale of any firearm receiver or firearm frame will not be permitted (whether complete receivers and frames, components and parts of receivers and frames, or "cut," "80%," or "partially complete" receivers).
Category Changes
In order to improve the ability of buyers to find your items, the category structure of the Hunting category has been expanded to include the creation of three separate categories for Gun Related items:

Gun Safety & Storage
Gun Parts
Gun Accessories
The Scopes, Optics, Taxidermy, Reloading Equipment & Vintage categories have also been expanded. For more information you may view the whole list of new categories.
Regards,

eBay "

ual001
09-07-2004, 02:29 AM
I got one from combat depot for about 90. I only got it cause it would look good on the rail of my gun. I could care less if it works or not. If I was actually trying to shoot people, I would proubably buy a real one, but just to look cool, my guarder does fine. For about 90 dollars, I'm not complaining.

Marimba
11-03-2004, 04:44 PM
After taking the time to read completely through this thread, and do some research on my own, I too have become curious about purchasing an Aimpoint replica. While I realize the replica may not be of penultimate quality, I would still like to purchase one. I just like the military look of that style of red-dot and of the cantilever mounts to go along with them. Before anyone tells me to investigate BSA red dots, let me say that I am currently the proud owner of a BSA 42mm red-dot. What I really want to know is who actually has one of the Guarder, G&P or Samurai Aimpoint replicas that I could actually hold in my hands to inspect the craftsmanship before I purchase one sight unseen from some overseas retailer? After seeing some of the real Aimpionts, I am impressed by the quality and apparent durability. However, I have chosen to go the Replica route due to the facts; 1. Airsoft is a game. 2.My Airsoft gun is a replica of a real rifle. 3. A replica red-dot would suit me just fine. If anybody has one that I could see, please bring it to the next game so I may see it. If you have one lying around that you no longer have use or need of, please send me a PM.

Thank you all,
Marimba

PS-Be good to one another.

AustinWolv
11-03-2004, 04:51 PM
Obsidian has one that I used to have. I had bought it used off a guy who said it was a Samurai, but I'm fairly certain it was a G&P considering it had the rubber straps, not wire ones like the Samurai has. It also had the mount that comes with the G&P shown on WGC's site. Overall, I'd say it was a fairly nice replica. The switch wasn't that good, but it worked well enough.
I was actually going to do a comparison review between it and a real Aimpoint, but haven't gotten around to it.

Anyway, drop Obsidian a line to see if he can bring it out for you.

Katana
11-03-2004, 04:57 PM
My only real problem with the replica is that I have seen them break rather easily, IMO. The Aimpoint design is a smart looking sight so if you want one, more power to you. Just be gentle with it. :-)

benc64
11-03-2004, 08:29 PM
but I'm fairly certain it was a G&P considering it had the rubber straps, not wire ones like the Samurai has.
One of my teammates bought a Samurai replica and it came with rubber straps, so it may be the same for the one that you had.

Marimba
11-08-2004, 01:21 PM
Just wanted to say thanks to BStann for bringing 2 aimpiont replicas out for me to see and compare. I purchased one of them, the G&P, I think, and used it all day on Saturday. Even as a replica I think it is still a good quality red-dot. Very bright, even in direct sunlight, and very easy to center at distance. I would say that the craftsmanship at least equals my other BSA red-dot.

Thanks to every one who gave me input,
Marimba

ryanmoret
11-08-2004, 07:09 PM
Airsoft Atlanta has released a new aimpoint style redpoint. Has anyone used or heard anything about them?