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LaPHtA
03-11-2004, 10:08 AM
(Please see “New To Airsoft” for more about me.)

I have been researching bolt-action Sniper rifles and think I can make an educated decision on the UHC Super 9 v2. I have read the reviews and feel it’s a good beginner rifle for me in the Sniper role. I am, of course, open to further discussion about this.

My question is on the secondary firearm. I think in real world terms I’d probably depend on a sub machine gun or at least my Spotter to spray covering fire during a hot retreat, but I am thinking a simple sidearm would do. What are your recommendations on an electric or gas powered sidearm? To me, it doesn’t have to be pleasing to the eye, just perform well. I'm looking at a budget of $50-75 for this I think. Of course recommendations can sway me in this as well.

Thanks for your input.

-Steve

AustinWolv
03-11-2004, 10:19 AM
Don't waste your time with a Super9. Terrible weapon. Better to save your money and look into something else.

To be in a sniper with range in Airsoft, you'll need to spend money.....lots of it.

I would highly recommend starting off with an AEG.

This is a good summary of the way many of us feel, taken from Airsoftretreat.com:

'Snipers' in Airsoft are little more than semiautomatic riflemen with very few advantages---- nothing at all like real world or movie snipers who can stand off a significant distance and pick off targets at ranges far beyond that of their targets.

Most of the time a sniper will get a 15% advantage in FPS as their top end--- which translates to an extra 30 feet or so in effective range over the average AEG. Considering a person can close that distance in very little time, the sniper doesn't get much of an advantage there.

Probably the best reason not to get a sniper rifle first is that a sniper needs to fully understand the tactics and capability of a rifleman and his squad in order to effectively engage them. Additionally, the skills of the rifleman are the basis of almost every single skill a sniper would use. One simply cannot learn the skill set of an infantry grunt by watching or reading about it. You got to get on the ground and pound dirt with the meat eaters in order to understand what it is they do and why.

A sniper also needs to accept several realities about his role. 1) You will have games where you accomplish absolutely nothing for a great deal of effort expended. It's the nature of the one man ambush-- if the enemy elects to not go your way, you might not every see them. 2) You will get more instances of people not registering hits if you do you job right. (operating ant extreme range and engaging targets that aren't aware they could be under fire--- they're less likely to notice that the bb hit their gear or padded area) 3) if you run into a team that has a competent leader, you will be overrun and crushed or completely bypassed.

Why shouldn’t someone getting into Airsoft specialize in a sniper role initially? It's simple: because you have to spend a lot of time and money to develop your gear and skill set enough to be decent and piles more time to be anywhere near 'good'. Even then you don't gain much over a competent rifleman.

A large part of the Airsoft experience is that you can be that special operations guy for a few hours without the inconviences of low pay, crappy working conditions and bleeding to death in a far away land. However, going into the role of a sniper with a realistic expectation of what you'll face from a gaming perspective is important.

Snipers are less effective on the field than comparably skilled riflemen. Why? Simply because the sniper is limited in his usefulness by his equipment. Snipers, because their gear is specialized to take advantage of one particular kind of engagement (long range, low volume) is less useful in a variety of other situations that an AEG can do effectively: CQB, suppressive fire, assaulting a hot objective, etc.

You'll find posts on this board that mirror those statements. Snipers have their place, but not IMO as a dedicated scout/sniper team out by themselves.

As for a inexpensive GBB, look at the KJW series of GBB's. Typically fairly durable, even though they aren't the best-looking of replicas (but who cares as long as it works, right?). You can typically find them on Ebay for a bit cheaper than retail if you are patient.

Dark
03-11-2004, 03:12 PM
One option, if you still think you might want to be a sniper at some point, is to purchase an AEG that could eventually be converted to a semi-automatic sniper rifle. Examples include any Armalite, which can be converted to an SR25 or SPR, or a G3-SG1, which can be used in its normal form as a sniper rifle or converted to a MSG90. This would give you the chance to experience airsoft from the infantryman's viewpoint, then move to a sniper role if you so choose at a later time.

LaPHtA
03-11-2004, 03:21 PM
Thanks, guys!

I have already been swayed and have spent the greater part of the day shopping for an AEG. The Sniper role still really is calling for me but I think Wolv's quote put it into perspective for me. I think I was treating it more with a "real-world" approach.

So, I have taken the advice of many of you (the chat applet got a lot of use from me today) and I'm going AEG...for now.

-Steve

Mack4
03-11-2004, 03:51 PM
Good choice, sniping cost too much freaking money.
-Mack

Obsidian
03-11-2004, 04:46 PM
My opinion is that it is better for a Sniper in airsoft to carry an AEG and use the sniper rilfe to engage problem people when the opportunity presents itself. If you try to play the whole day with just the sniper rifle you are not going to have a very entertaining time.

MeanGreen
03-11-2004, 05:54 PM
From my experiences in the field, scout sniper teams work just as well in airsoft as they do in realistic military circumstances just in a different way. My weapon (APS2) fires 508 f/p/s with .2 gram BBs and 418 f/p/s with .43 gram pellets (average of three shots). Using the higher wieght BBs will make the BB travel through the air slower then you would like but still faster and longer then a normal AEG. I use a converted MP5 RAS as my side arm and I love the combo. I have made shots (with people calling their hits) from 80-100 yards frequently in games I think because of the higher gram BB I use. If the area is heavily wooded that you are playing in then no, you are not going to be a very effective airsoft sniper but you and your spotter can become a very effective recon and special operations team behind enemy lines. ALWAYS carry a side arm because you will wind up using it 60-70% of the time but I can almost always kill someone that my team mates can't because of my rifle. Airsoft sniper come in real handy when there is a man stalling up your squad and you don't want to waste a man or two trying to kill him or the time to go around him. That when they call me up, I take him out from a longer range then he can return fire from and we move on. Also, I usually kill them before they find out where I am because the higher gram BBs are metallic metal coded instead of pure plastic and you cannot see them travel through the air very well unless you know where the BB is travelling and you can look in a straight line to where it is being shot. I know most people think being a sniper is impractical, and being a sniper in the military IS impractical in airsoft (with the ghille suit and all) because you aren't shooting at ttargets 400-500 yards away but snipers ARE a big help in a different way and I think I have proven that many times at games.

p.s.- If it is TOO windy you might as well never leave the trees or just go with the AEG that day.

scooter
03-12-2004, 10:16 AM
If you ever decide on getting a good sidearm, i would get a good GBB! They come in handy, make sure you get extra mags with it, even if you dont plan on using it that much. Sometimes the mags leak and you also run out of bb's real fast in an intense firefight!!!

Obsidian
03-12-2004, 10:44 AM
A GBB will generally not save you in a battle vs an AEG.

AustinWolv
03-12-2004, 11:11 AM
Much like extra exclamation points won't save you from annoying people on Internet forums. ;)

scooter
03-12-2004, 01:20 PM
hey, so im a happy guy!!!:D

A GBB may not save you but it will at least give your pursuer something to think about before he just rushes up on you. It can give you the time you need to make an incredibly daring escape!;)

If you do it right, you can keep someone's head down with a pistol, hell i have seen it done with a springer. That only happens in close combat though!

LaPHtA
03-13-2004, 08:38 PM
Thanks, everyone, for all of your input.

I have been flip-flopping on what I want
to do and finally committed to a plan of action.

Sniper/Scout

I have a TM VSR-10 Pro-Sniper en route. I think as I grow more
serious about my role as a Sniper I can still get a higher end weapon .
With all the reviews and the potential of this newer rifle, it just sort of fits for me.

As a sidearm I have a UHC USP Gas Non Blow Back en route. I based the decision
mostly on a review I read on AirsoftCore. I don’t plan on using it much so I
think it will do the job.

Finally, my secondary weapon. I really like the input from MeanGreen and I think it was
this that got me back to wanting to snipe. As a secondary I am going with
the TM 733. This way I can lay down pretty good fire when I need to and still
have the option to use it as my primary with little trouble when weather dictates. It’s compact size just makes sense to me as a secondary for a Sniper. The upgrades also look very good and this will give me the opportunity to tinker.

So, there we have it. I think this could give me the best of both worlds. The opportunity to enter the realm of the Sniper, and also the ability to be in squad based skirmishes when I choose.

I'm off to find a good LBE that I can mount a camelback onto. Oh, and a thigh holster as well.

As always, any input would be appreciated.

-Steve

MeanGreen
03-15-2004, 02:17 AM
Glad I could help man. By the way I am upgrading my APS2 with a 595 MM barrel. Super acuracy time. :D

AustinWolv
03-15-2004, 08:27 AM
UHC USP Gas Non Blow Back I have one.....cool inexpensive replica that actually doesn't look too bad. Doesn't perform all that great compared to my other gas pistols, but what can you expect for that cheap of a price? Also feels like a toy, but again, it is extremely inexpensive and a good place to start.

Congrats on picking up the new VSR-10 and M733. I would not expect significant effective range out of that rifle until you upgrade, but it will get you started, and you'll have fun! :)

LaPHtA
03-15-2004, 11:41 AM
The M733 hasn't been ordered yet. I'm still waiting on word from the seller I have picked (the same I ordered my VSR-10 from) to see if he can match a price I found elsewhere.

I did figure as much on the range of the VSR-10 but being a TM I'm banking on there being upgrades to come. <fingers crossed> I think what sold me was the TM name and this link: http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~respectevo5/vsr-10.html

I really like that silencer...does anyone know what it is? I know that I can order an adapter to fit TM silencers to the VSR-10 but I'll be darned if I can't find that silencer. Maybe you have a different recommendation?

I spent the greater part of the weekend going through all the TA-50 I still have. Come to find out I only had to order a thigh holster.

Can any of you Snipers recommend a decent scope for Airsoft battles? I'd guess with the shorter range there is no need for a monster scope, but what do you use?

One more question: How long does an average battle last?

I ask because I wonder if there is enough time for a good stalk or if it's a matter of running in to a position and setting up a hide for a shot.

As always, thanks for the help you all are giving me.

-Steve

Dark
03-15-2004, 01:12 PM
Skirmishes can be anywhere from 15 minutes to over 4 hours straight at an op.

MeanGreen
03-20-2004, 12:36 PM
Any scope you can find at Academy is more than enough for Airsoft Skirmishes.

Mack4
03-20-2004, 01:23 PM
All I can say is a fixed power scope works fine, as long as it has decent FOV, The larger the diameter of the front lens the more it gathers light, the more you can see in dusk/darkness. Go to www.pryamidair.com for some good airgun scope. A Airsoft gun will funk up a rifle scope, something to do with the vibrations of the spring in upgraded guns... I would reccomend a Airgun scope, cheaper, designed for forward vibration, and some of them are freaking cool!.
-Mack